Further discussion of the developing situation with Jason


#81

It’s quite sad to see all of this going down. As a player, I admire both creators. I have a lot of respect towards Jason for coming up with OHOL and continuing to work as hard on it as he has. I also have respect for Christoffer. I see him struggle between making new updates and features (most with player-requested changes) all the while dealing with incoming player requests, bugs, among other things I’m probably unaware about. Perhaps I’m biased in part to my background in customer service, but I know how hard it can be at times, and I just can’t imagine how difficult it must be to juggle so many things at once, yet I always see him trying the best he’s capable of doing.

That all said, I can’t really grasp the concept as to why this is becoming such a problem so long past mobile’s launch. As far as I know, the game was approved in the beginning. Long-term possibilities need to be discussed at the start, before any of this should happen. I do believe Jason does deserve some more acknowledgement, but at the same time I agree with Christoffer on the points of movie vs. author. Yes, this is clearly a game and not a movie. Aren’t games released based off movies, that are based off books, made too?

Take Twilight for example. It’s even had board games created based from it. With the popularity of the subject, others obviously tend to follow. Jason worked hard for his grand success on Steam and otherwise. Can’t Christoffer’s hard work and international success be acknowledged, too? You two are both hardworking creators, regardless of a timeline.

Mobile reaches out to the players that either want to have the ability to play anywhere or the ones who don’t have access to a PC. My case is the latter. I had bought the PC version then was devastated when I discovered my laptop wasn’t compatible with Windows or Linux. I thought I’d never be able to play the wonderful OHOL. But then I discovered the mobile version! I’m so glad I have the opportunity to experience the game from a platform available to me.

Without the door Christoffer opened up, I would still be stuck passively watching others play the game whilst yearning for the uncertain days it will become compatible with Chrome or IOS. Jason didn’t have a problem with it until it began growing in popularity, partly due to Christoffer’s inclusion of other languages. In all, I do agree there could be more obvious credit for Jason. But at the same time, myself and I’m sure other players would be upset if the game ventured so far from the original. Once again, I’d be stuck watching others play the game I’ve fallen in love with from afar.

This ordeal almost strikes a cord as childish, from both ends. Please be adults and compromise like men; not a bickering couple fighting over who’s what and making threats. I love this game so much, I love Jason for creating it, and I love Christoffer for making it available to me. Have a nice day you guys.


#82

Sorry for that long post, I have a lot to say ^^ :sweat_smile::sweat_smile:


#83

Ok.


#84

Yep, explained perfectly lol


#85

My understanding is that jason demanded very specific changes to be made and is not willing to compromise on them. They come across as being intentionaly harshly derivative. Meaning that the demands that jason are making are capable of implying that the mobile game is an inferior product and not aproved by him the original creator. This would normally be perfectly acceptable if he didnt allow the port in the first place or retained all rights for his masterwork.
Now im not a lawer but i dont think he has any legal right to have the games pulled or to demand changes in the first place considering the open domain state of the original game.


#86

Well. Jason have a forum just for that matter, a forum where everyone make a suggestion and then people can upvote the idea. The most like ones will find its way to the game. At least that was the main idea. In reality, none of those ever made it true. At least in this version of the game, the developers are making our suggestions reality. That is a plus sing.

He just don’t approve allot of things with the app, and he also wants to be mentioned in the credits, because this game is almost a mirror of its original one. That is why we are all here in the first place.


#87

You talked about empathizing so I tried to do that, but, since most of it currently seems to be on Jason’s side I actually tried to do it from Christoffer’s side. Of course, this is all guess work on my part but based on the thread here and the the thread on Jason’s forum.

So, imagine you’re a mobile developer looking for your next project and then you stumble upon a quite unique PC-only game with a copyright that reads like this:


I don’t think people would blame you if you figured that that allowed you to make a mobile version of the client The code for the servers you connect to can be reused but the stuff that actually runs on your computer has to be re-created from scratch for mobile so you need to put in quite some work to do it (I guess that’s where the the book to movie analogy comes from, the story is basically the same but the media is different).

You plod along for quite some time making no money at all but then people actually start getting curious about the mobile version of the game (I’m too new to the game to know how that happened, youtube or some chinese equivalent I guess). Then mistakes involving a third party (chinese) are made, you scramble to fix it but it’s not deemed enough by Jason and you’re now trying to resolve an issue with someone who won’t talk to you on the phone or meet with you in person (according to posts on Jason’s forum).

Now the assumptions you made about Jason’s intentions are no longer valid and you don’t know what to believe and you’re stuck trying to get your point across in text which is a medium rife with misinterpretations, especially if you’re not a native speaker of the language used.

Is this what happend? No idea. Could it have happend like this. Yes, I think so. Could I be totally of the mark? Certainly.

The Road to Hell is Paved with Good Intentions


#88

It is very childish. I agree with your sentiment. On the other hand, Jason probably never expected the game to peak at #1 in Japanese app store or have such an insane number of downloads in China.

It’s a special case above special cases and neither of the parties were prepared for the fallout.

But the bomb has dropped and now ugly mutants are flocking out of the rubble. They’ve gotta deal with it now.

@Mandrake

Nope, he shouldn’t… or that’s what it seems like. There was a lawyer-like person on the PC forums that explained that public domain isn’t actually purely, 100% public.

But that’s not what Jason is arguing. His demands are purely at a standpoint of not being associated with a game that he had no real part in (from a decision making standpoint) – he claims that it’s a case of misinformation/fraud. Such as say, putting in messages that the original creator – Jason Rohrer – has not approved.

If Jason likes cows but the game made you believe that Jason likes pigs, what now, brown cow?


#89

Maybe for the issue of Jason being contacted in regards to mobile version, there could be a sort of “feedback/complaint/etc” link upon game start up. Like in the corner? There is the forums, but some new players or players with a language barrier might not understand how it works. And I liked that one person’s (sorry, I can’t recall your name) idea of adding credits to the screen when you die. It’s not blaringly obnoxious, but also very visible.


#90

Yah i suggested the link earlier today. I think christopher is in a state of not functioning properly from exhaustion right now though. (Hes mentioned several times about working extreamly long times trying to fix the situation)


#91

I think Jason wants it to be known that:

  1. Jason Rohrerer has made the original game and the concept behind it
  2. The mobile version is not affiliated to Jason (as in most of the assets are built by he), but he’s not actually part of the dev team

… By everyone that is thinking of buying the mobile port. Not halfway or at the end. Right from the beginning. Because he doesn’t want to hear another person say, ‘Oh! I was wondering why the mobile version is so different from the desktop version…’ or ‘I bought the game thinking that The Jason Rohrerererer made it…’

See, it’s subtle – but there’s a difference. That’s why the title needs changing (as claimed by Jason Rohrererer). But technically speaking, it is the official version on the mobile platform, because there wasn’t an official one before.

I wonder if Sid Meier or Tom Clancy had to deal with people emailing them about games they haven’t touched/ever work on…


#92

Realistically, a very small amount of people will read anything when it comes to just playing a GAME and he will always get the bothered by those people…


#93

The problem is, this is more like a new book biased off of the original book rewritten for a different group of readers (Maybe children or teenagers ). And people thinking the new book is written by the same author.

Some noobs can’t tell the difference between a fire bow drill and a bow and arrow, or a clay pit from a soil pit. It takes time to figure things out. A game that looks the same as the PC version but not made by the same person is a new concept in human history. Smartphones are very new in human history, computers are kinda new too. Some people don’t know you have to rewrite the game for the mobile version. This whole situation is new to people, not everyone can understand it right away. So it really needs to be made clear. The question is : How?


#94

Yes, but if the mobile dev made every possible move to properly inform the players, then the fault lies in the players, not the game or the dev. And nothing can be done about player ignorances.

Jason argues, however, that the devs haven’t done all that is possible. And Christoffer claims that doing what Jason demands isn’t realistically possible (for reasons that are not 100% disclosed).

@EmberWolf
So basically, J.K Rowling and The Cursed Child?


#95

Would a “credits” button on the main page work? Citing original pc team and creator as well as the adaptation team? I see it in a lot of games available in the main menu.
You can link this form for the mobile version and link the pc version bringing profit to Jason’s original game without getting a mobile “cut” but still giving him profit.

I appreciate Jason and his team for creating this amazing game and I appreciate the mobile team for allowing us to enjoy it, I truly love this game and if I used PC I would probably play on both platforms.


#96

The question however, is that people will only see the credits if they buy the game. How do you inform potential customers that the game is not actually made by Jason Rohrerererererererer? One way is to put Unofficial in the title and adding disclaimers within the game, but the demands by Jason is not adopted by Christoffer, so we’re at a stalemate with a potential plug being pulled for the mobile version and maybe an ensuing, messy IP lawsuit.


#97

Ok, so… why not a trial run? Seriously it’s a mobile app. Allow people to download it access 1 tutorial (idk say the food solo event) and they “unlock” the rest of the game with a purchase. Then you can site it with a free download before people buy it thinking its Jasons game.

Ya it’s a little bit of work but its possible.

This would also make MORE people buy the mobile version.

I struggled with getting the game for that reason. I like trying something before I buy it. Especially a mobile game. If there was a free version first i would have downloaded it right away and then bought it after I played the “demo”

Instead I had to youtube it and look at reviews, which not every1 will do.


#98

The misplaced bug reports and such were an problem, but easily solvable. The real issue is that DD had a third party chinese developer port the game into chinese, and they made two big mistakes: 1) they omitted the text that gave credit to Jason. These were present in the DD port in English, as was originally agreed upon. But the Chinese for whatever reason decided those weren’t important. Or if you’re Jason, you think that DD instructed the Chinese to do this, because they thought he’d never catch on or something. 2) Again with the Chinese - they made a “meet the developers” video. They had DD send in some footage. Chris says they were super-busy with actual game production and just did some stuff as quick as they could. And apparently the Chinese never mentioned Jason in that video. These things were like this apparently 40 days before someone took notice and took steps to correct the lack of attribution in the Chinese media.

Now Jason claims that that condition of lack of attribution that went on for 40 days - even though now corrected - ‘irreparably’ damaged his ‘legacy’ or some such thing. He has not claimed monetary damages, which makes sense because he’s said elsewhere he’d never translate the game. It’s about his legacy or whatever. And now he’s trying to dictate very very specific text changes to the title and other places, some of which arguably would make the mobile game sound like it’s basically an illegal port he never approved, when the fact of the matter he did approve it, and it’s the Chinese Mistakes that have caused this mess.

It seems like Jason has had misgivings about Chris for awhile, and this situation brought it to a head. Jason feels he’s been taken advantage of - that he gave in too much in the initial negotiations - and is digging in his heels now. DD refuses to torpedo their product by making it sound like something illicit that Jason never ever agreed to. It went from negotiations to demands, and here we are. A lot hinges on if Jason actually goes through with this app take-down. If that happens it will escalate things to a new level.

Frankly there were better ways to solve the problem, but there’s a lot of pride and face-saving at stake now, I think.


#99

Im just going to quote your message from now on :joy: summed up the whole situation pretty perfectly.


#100

I think this is a good opportunity actually. The problem coming out of hand is actually a good opportunity to do something. The fact that both the mobile developers and Jason keep silent for long time is like a bomb that will explode anytime . Actually, I think that both Jason and the mobile developers should meet each other or at least video call and something. The bad thing about E-mailing and posting on forum is we can’t see each other face or mood or feeling and that we can’t explain everything properly so some misinterpretation is mostly going to happen. So , what about meeting each other and solve it once and for all ? Please … I love this game and I think indirect communication is only going to make thing worse.